The Domestication of the Savage Mind (Themes in the Social Sciences) Export

@book{citeulike:493693, abstract = {{Current theories and views on the differences in the 'mind' of human societies depend very much on a dichotomy between 'advanced' and 'primitive', or between 'open' and 'closed', or between 'domesticated' and 'savage', that is to say, between one of a whole variety of 'we-they' distinctions. Professor Goody argues that such an approach prevents any serious discussion of the mechanisms leading to long-term changes in the cognitive processes of human cultures or any adequate explanation of the changes in 'traditional' societies that are taking place in the world around us. In this book he attempts to provide the framework for a more satisfactory explanation by relating certain broad differences in 'mentalities' to the changes in the means of communication, and specifically to the series of shifts involved in the development of writing. The argument is based upon theoretical considerations, as well as empirical evidence derived from recent fieldwork in West Africa and the study of a wide range of source material on the ancient societies of the Near East.}}, author = {Goody, Jack}, citeulike-article-id = {493693}, citeulike-linkout-0 = {http://www.amazon.ca/exec/obidos/redirect?tag=citeulike09-20&path=ASIN/0521292425}, citeulike-linkout-1 = {http://www.amazon.de/exec/obidos/redirect?tag=citeulike01-21&path=ASIN/0521292425}, citeulike-linkout-2 = {http://www.amazon.fr/exec/obidos/redirect?tag=citeulike06-21&path=ASIN/0521292425}, citeulike-linkout-3 = {http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/0521292425/citeulike00-21}, citeulike-linkout-4 = {http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/redirect?tag=citeulike07-20&path=ASIN/0521292425}, citeulike-linkout-5 = {http://www.worldcat.org/isbn/0521292425}, citeulike-linkout-6 = {http://books.google.com/books?vid=ISBN0521292425}, citeulike-linkout-7 = {http://www.amazon.com/gp/search?keywords=0521292425&index=books&linkCode=qs}, citeulike-linkout-8 = {http://www.librarything.com/isbn/0521292425}, comment = {46-51 (part of 'Literacy, criticism, and the growth of knowledge') pg 46: Goody argues that there is not a simple dichotomy between the presence or absence of writing. This section seems to be about the relationship between writing and the practice of science. Goody is searching for an alternative definition of "rationality" and uses Wartofsky (1967) as a starting point. Science is about the "reflective use of concepts" which seems to be aided by the "permanent embodiment" of words (48). Goody uses Kuhn's Structure of Scientific Revolutions as an example to show how through writing on notecards, Margaret Masterman was able to point out twenty one different ways Kuhn uses the term "paradigm" in the book. This particular type of examination would not have been possible if the book had been delivered as speech. Speech is more favorable or lenient of inconsistency to the point of deceiving the speaker at times. pg 51: Goody seems to be trying to carefully balance any sort of strict determinism. 74-84 (part of 'What's in a list?') In this section, Goody describes lists as something unique to written culture. Here, it is important to understand the term "list" as he is defining it. This section also seems to be a direct response to criticism of Goody and Watt (1968). The analysis here is primarily historical (see 78). Goody points out on pages 75-76 the importance of pre-alphabet forms of writing such as the logograms and pictograms. The written word, Goody argues, is not "simply" a recorded form of speech. It is something different and exists in a relationship with language and speech. Each point of this triangle influences the others. This is in contradiction, Goody claims, to Saussurean semiotics and linguistics. Writing has a "storage function, that permits communication over time and space and provides man with a marking, mnemonic and recording device." Like some of the writing in "Consequences of Literacy" the first part of that sentence seems to suggest that the meaning is in the words themselves. The idea of writing as a trigger for memory or trigger for meaning making sounds better to me. The definition of "list" that Goody uses relates to the notion of boundary. Three kinds of lists that Goody discusses: a) an inventory, a record; b) Retrospective list (a checklist); and c) the lexical list. On page 81, Goody stresses that these forms of writing did not only fill some emerging "'need', but that they represented a significant change not only in the nature of transactions, but also in the 'modes of thought'...." The lists that Goody is talking about here are those that depend on the visual, spatial location of the items on the list. There is ordering. 99-111 (part of 'What's in a list?') This section begins with a discussion of the Egyptian Onomastica. These lists were catalogs, a classification system. On page 102, Goody argues that writing has effects on the notion of classification. It "sharpens the outlines of the categories," forces making decisions, "encourages hierarchy...." I wonder about this. Certainly hierarchical classification is common, but even if writing made it possible, does writing "prefer" it to other forms of classification? Perhaps if one buys the fact that people don't want to "write" something more than once. Digital "writing" certainly allows for an easier way to classify in ways that are not strictly hierarchical. I had a problem with some of Goody's examples here. Sometimes, I feel that he muddles "writing" with graphics and visualizations. For example, the Aristotelian tables (102), the "clustering" and "spatial separation" (104-105). Argument gets a bit shaky on pg 108 when he is unable to discuss the appearance of lists in oral cultures. He is left to say "I have no representative sample of the linguistic acts of even one oral culture, but in my personal experience the occasions that would give rise to verbal lists are few and far between." It's hard for me to take his personal experience very seriously here as he is not from the kind of "oral culture" that he is differentiating. }, day = {24}, howpublished = {Paperback}, isbn = {0521292425}, keywords = {classification, culture, learning, literacy}, month = {November}, posted-at = {2006-02-04 01:06:40}, priority = {0}, publisher = {{Cambridge University Press}}, title = {The Domestication of the Savage Mind (Themes in the Social Sciences)}, url = {http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/redirect?tag=citeulike07-20&path=ASIN/0521292425}, year = {1977} }

TY - BOOK ID - citeulike:493693 L3 - citeulike-article-id:493693 N2 - {Current theories and views on the differences in the 'mind' of human societies depend very much on a dichotomy between 'advanced' and 'primitive', or between 'open' and 'closed', or between 'domesticated' and 'savage', that is to say, between one of a whole variety of 'we-they' distinctions. Professor Goody argues that such an approach prevents any serious discussion of the mechanisms leading to long-term changes in the cognitive processes of human cultures or any adequate explanation of the changes in 'traditional' societies that are taking place in the world around us. In this book he attempts to provide the framework for a more satisfactory explanation by relating certain broad differences in 'mentalities' to the changes in the means of communication, and specifically to the series of shifts involved in the development of writing. The argument is based upon theoretical considerations, as well as empirical evidence derived from recent fieldwork in West Africa and the study of a wide range of source material on the ancient societies of the Near East.} SN - 0521292425 TI - The Domestication of the Savage Mind (Themes in the Social Sciences) PB - {Cambridge University Press} KW - classification KW - culture KW - learning KW - literacy N1 - 46-51 (part of 'Literacy, criticism, and the growth of knowledge') pg 46: Goody argues that there is not a simple dichotomy between the presence or absence of writing. This section seems to be about the relationship between writing and the practice of science. Goody is searching for an alternative definition of "rationality" and uses Wartofsky (1967) as a starting point. Science is about the "reflective use of concepts" which seems to be aided by the "permanent embodiment" of words (48). Goody uses Kuhn's Structure of Scientific Revolutions as an example to show how through writing on notecards, Margaret Masterman was able to point out twenty one different ways Kuhn uses the term "paradigm" in the book. This particular type of examination would not have been possible if the book had been delivered as speech. Speech is more favorable or lenient of inconsistency to the point of deceiving the speaker at times. pg 51: Goody seems to be trying to carefully balance any sort of strict determinism. 74-84 (part of 'What's in a list?') In this section, Goody describes lists as something unique to written culture. Here, it is important to understand the term "list" as he is defining it. This section also seems to be a direct response to criticism of Goody and Watt (1968). The analysis here is primarily historical (see 78). Goody points out on pages 75-76 the importance of pre-alphabet forms of writing such as the logograms and pictograms. The written word, Goody argues, is not "simply" a recorded form of speech. It is something different and exists in a relationship with language and speech. Each point of this triangle influences the others. This is in contradiction, Goody claims, to Saussurean semiotics and linguistics. Writing has a "storage function, that permits communication over time and space and provides man with a marking, mnemonic and recording device." Like some of the writing in "Consequences of Literacy" the first part of that sentence seems to suggest that the meaning is in the words themselves. The idea of writing as a trigger for memory or trigger for meaning making sounds better to me. The definition of "list" that Goody uses relates to the notion of boundary. Three kinds of lists that Goody discusses: a) an inventory, a record; b) Retrospective list (a checklist); and c) the lexical list. On page 81, Goody stresses that these forms of writing did not only fill some emerging "'need', but that they represented a significant change not only in the nature of transactions, but also in the 'modes of thought'...." The lists that Goody is talking about here are those that depend on the visual, spatial location of the items on the list. There is ordering. 99-111 (part of 'What's in a list?') This section begins with a discussion of the Egyptian Onomastica. These lists were catalogs, a classification system. On page 102, Goody argues that writing has effects on the notion of classification. It "sharpens the outlines of the categories," forces making decisions, "encourages hierarchy...." I wonder about this. Certainly hierarchical classification is common, but even if writing made it possible, does writing "prefer" it to other forms of classification? Perhaps if one buys the fact that people don't want to "write" something more than once. Digital "writing" certainly allows for an easier way to classify in ways that are not strictly hierarchical. I had a problem with some of Goody's examples here. Sometimes, I feel that he muddles "writing" with graphics and visualizations. For example, the Aristotelian tables (102), the "clustering" and "spatial separation" (104-105). Argument gets a bit shaky on pg 108 when he is unable to discuss the appearance of lists in oral cultures. He is left to say "I have no representative sample of the linguistic acts of even one oral culture, but in my personal experience the occasions that would give rise to verbal lists are few and far between." It's hard for me to take his personal experience very seriously here as he is not from the kind of "oral culture" that he is differentiating. AU - Goody, Jack PY - 1977/11/24/ UR - http://www.amazon.ca/exec/obidos/redirect?tag=citeulike09-20&path=ASIN/0521292425 ER -